How to Convert PowerPoint to SCORM: Complete 2026 Guide

The single most common request I get from clients goes like this: "We've got all our training in PowerPoint, and our LMS needs SCORM. Can you help?" Over the years I've converted hundreds of decks — some in ten minutes with an automated tool, some rebuilt from scratch over several weeks — and the right answer depends almost entirely on what the PowerPoint is and what the training needs to do.

This guide walks through every practical method I use, from quick automated conversions to full custom rebuilds. I'll be honest about what each approach can and can't do, so you can pick the right method for your situation. If you're new to SCORM itself, my plain English guide to SCORM is a good place to start.

Why Convert PowerPoint to SCORM?

The natural follow-up question: why bother wrapping a deck in SCORM at all? The answer is simple. Most organisations have years of training content sitting in .pptx files, but PowerPoint on its own can't:

• Track whether someone completed the training
• Record quiz scores
• Save a learner's progress (bookmarking)
• Report data to your LMS

SCORM bridges this gap. It wraps your content in a package that your LMS can launch, track, and report on. The real question isn't whether to convert — it's how much work your deck needs along the way.

What's Actually Inside a SCORM Package

Before we get into tools, it helps to know what a SCORM package actually is — because every approach below is just a different way of producing one.

A SCORM package is a ZIP file containing:

• imsmanifest.xml — the manifest at the root of the ZIP. It's the file the LMS reads first: it describes the structure of the course, which SCORM version it uses, where the launch file lives, and what resources the package depends on.
• A launch file (usually index.html or story.html or similar) — the HTML entry point the LMS opens in an iframe. This is the course itself.
• Supporting assets — the HTML, JavaScript, CSS, images, audio, video, and fonts that make the course run.
• A SCORM API wrapper — a small piece of JavaScript that lets the course talk to your LMS, reporting completion, scores, and bookmarks as the learner goes.

Every tool in this guide — iSpring, Storyline, Captivate, the AI-first tools, a custom build — produces this same basic structure. The difference is in what the HTML and JavaScript actually do when the learner opens the course.

The Three Approaches

There are three different ways to get from PowerPoint to SCORM:

1. Direct conversion — automated tools that convert your PPT with minimal changes (iSpring, ActivePresenter, and the free browser-based converters all live here)
2. Enhanced conversion — authoring tools that import PPT and let you add interactivity (Storyline, Captivate, and the AI-first tools fit this bucket — with Rise 360 as a block-based sibling when you're rebuilding from the deck's content)
3. Custom rebuild — using the PowerPoint as a content source for a purpose-built course

Which one you need depends on your deck, your deadline, and how polished the final course has to feel.

Approach 1: Direct Conversion Tools

These tools take your PowerPoint file and output a SCORM package with minimal manual work. The result is essentially your slides in a SCORM wrapper.

iSpring Converter Pro

iSpring is the gold standard for direct PowerPoint-to-SCORM conversion. It installs as a PowerPoint plugin, so you work directly inside PowerPoint.

How to convert with iSpring: iSpring adds a tab to your PowerPoint ribbon; you click Publish → LMS, pick a SCORM version (1.2 or 2004), configure tracking (slides viewed, quiz score, or time spent), set any passing scores, and click Publish. The full walkthrough is in the Step-by-Step section later in this guide.

What you get:

• Near-perfect preservation of PowerPoint formatting, animations and transitions
• Audio and video narration preserved
• Clickable navigation with slide thumbnails
• Optional quiz tracking with SCORM reporting
• Mobile-responsive player

What Converter Pro alone doesn't give you:

• Dedicated interaction types beyond PowerPoint's native objects
• Branching scenarios and dialogue simulations
• Sophisticated quiz engines with 14+ question types

All of those are available if you step up to iSpring Suite, which bundles QuizMaker (14 question types with branching), TalkMaster (role-play and branched dialogue simulations), and a dedicated interactions editor (timelines, tabs, catalogues, glossaries) on top of the PowerPoint converter. So the choice is: Converter Pro for pure PPT-to-SCORM wrapping, or Suite if you want to push the content further without leaving the iSpring ecosystem.

Typical cost (verified April 2026): iSpring Suite is £776/year per author (about $970) billed annually. If you only need the PowerPoint-to-SCORM converter without the wider authoring toolkit, iSpring Converter Pro is £296/year per author (about $370). Check the iSpring pricing page for current figures in your region.

Best for: Organisations with large libraries of existing PowerPoint training that need to get content into an LMS quickly without redesigning.

Articulate Presenter / Studio 360 (End of Life)

Part of the older Articulate Studio suite — a PowerPoint plugin that converts slides to HTML5. Articulate has announced that support for Studio 360 (Presenter, Quizmaker, Engage), Replay 360 and Peek 360 ends on 31 December 2026. If you're still publishing from Presenter, now is the moment to migrate: I'd steer new projects to iSpring for direct conversion, or to Storyline if you want to enhance content at the same time.

Online Conversion Services

Various online services claim to convert PPT to SCORM. I'd approach them with caution: quality varies wildly, custom fonts and complex layouts often break, tracking is usually limited to basic completion, and you're uploading potentially sensitive training content to a third party. For anything beyond a quick proof of concept, a proper tool like iSpring gives far better results.

Free and Budget Options

If your budget is zero or near-zero, there are a handful of free and low-cost paths worth knowing about:

• ActivePresenter (Atomi Systems) is a standalone desktop authoring tool that imports PowerPoint and publishes SCORM 1.2, SCORM 2004 and xAPI. The free edition is genuinely capable, but it's non-commercial use only — any commercial project needs a paid licence. It's a one-time perpetual licence, typically $200–$500 per user; check Atomi's site for current figures. For learning the tool or an internal pilot it's the strongest free option I know of.
• SimpliTrain's PPT-to-SCORM converter is browser-based, free, no sign-up, no credit card, supports files up to 90MB, and outputs SCORM 1.2 and SCORM 2004 (3rd and 4th editions). No watermarks, no hidden tiers, files auto-deleted after processing. Worth noting it isn't linked from SimpliTrain's main nav — it's a standalone tool page that funnels to their LMS product — so go direct to the URL. It's the cleanest free web converter I've seen in 2026.
• Scormate (by Colorisoft) is another genuinely free browser-based converter — no registration, no watermarks, 100MB file limit, and files deleted after conversion. The trade-off is that it only outputs SCORM 1.2 and focuses on slide playback (animations, transitions, embedded video) rather than quizzes or scored interactions, so it's a good fit if you just need a deck to be trackable-as-completed in an LMS.
• Teachfloor's PPT-to-SCORM converter (currently in beta) is also free with no registration, though it caps files at 25MB and delivers the SCORM package by email rather than instant download. Fine for simple decks.
• ScormHero is a browser-based converter with a free tier of 5 conversions per day; paid plans start in the $15–$20/month range. It supports quiz questions (multiple choice, fill-in-the-blank, matching, essay) in its SCORM output, which sets it apart from the simpler free converters.
• iSpring Free PPT-to-SCORM is iSpring's free PowerPoint add-in — worth knowing about as a credible zero-cost route from the same vendor that makes the paid Converter Pro, though features are naturally pared back.

The honest trade-offs across all of these: per-day conversion caps or file-size limits on the web tools, and licensing restrictions on the "free" desktop tools. For anything hosted, you're also uploading your deck to a third-party server — read each tool's data-processing terms before using them with sensitive training content. Beyond experimentation or internal pilots, a paid tool is almost always worth it.

Approach 2: Enhanced Conversion (Import + Enhance)

This approach imports your PowerPoint into a dedicated authoring tool, then lets you enhance it with interactivity, quizzes, and branching before publishing as SCORM.

Articulate Storyline 360

Storyline can import PowerPoint slides and convert them into editable Storyline content.

How to convert with Storyline:

1. Open Storyline 360 and choose File → Import → Import PowerPoint (or start from the launch screen's "Import PowerPoint" option)
2. Select your .pptx file
3. Choose which slides to import
4. Edit slides in Storyline's editor — add interactions, triggers, layers
5. Add quiz questions using Storyline's quiz tools
6. Configure SCORM settings in Publish → LMS
7. Choose SCORM version, tracking method, and completion criteria
8. Publish

What you get:

• PowerPoint content as a starting point
• Full access to Storyline's interaction library (drag-and-drop, hotspots, tabs, accordions)
• Sophisticated quiz engine with multiple question types
• Branching scenarios and conditional navigation
• Variables and triggers for complex logic
• Screen recording and simulation capabilities

Caveats:

• Some PowerPoint animations don't translate perfectly
• Custom fonts may need re-embedding
• Complex slide masters sometimes import with quirks
• It's a full authoring environment — there's a learning curve

Typical cost (verified April 2026): Articulate 360 AI Personal is $1,449/year per user, and Articulate 360 AI Teams is $1,749/year per user, both billed annually. Articulate prices in USD on their site (roughly £1,145 and £1,382 respectively at current rates). A non-AI "Standard" tier is also sold but no longer headlined on the pricing page — you'll need to use Articulate's pricing calculator to see it. The subscription bundles Storyline, Rise and the rest of the 360 suite. See the Articulate 360 pricing page for the latest tiers.

Best for: Training teams that want to significantly enhance their PowerPoint content with interactivity and need a professional authoring environment.

Adobe Captivate

Adobe rebuilt Captivate from the ground up in 2023, so today's Captivate is a very different product from the Captivate Classic many teams remember. The new version is built around a PowerPoint-to-eLearning workflow, generative AI, and long-scroll responsive layouts — simpler and faster than Classic, not a power-user tool with a punishing learning curve.

How to convert with the new Captivate:

1. Create a new project and choose the PowerPoint starting option
2. Import your .pptx file
3. Edit text, images and animations directly inside Captivate
4. Add interactions from the widget gallery (flip cards, hotspots, accordions, timelines) and questions from the quiz library
5. Publish as SCORM from the publish menu

What you get:

• A PowerPoint-to-eLearning import flow built into the headline workflow
• Generative AI for course drafting and avatar-led video
• Long-scroll responsive layouts that adapt to any screen
• Interactive video, software simulation recording, and a drag-and-drop widget gallery
• Quiz engine with branching and scoring

Caveats:

• Still a subscription-only product — no perpetual licence
• Classic-era features like Fluid Boxes and VR/360° are not currently in the new Captivate (Adobe has flagged some as "to be added")
• If you need those Classic-only capabilities today, you'd need Captivate Classic, which Adobe still makes available to existing customers
• Ecosystem and asset libraries are smaller than Articulate's

Typical cost (verified April 2026): Adobe Captivate is £40/month on the individual UK subscription — roughly £480/year. Team and enterprise tiers are routed through Adobe's Value Incentive Plan. See Adobe's Captivate page for current pricing.

Best for: Teams already in the Adobe ecosystem, teams that want AI-assisted drafting baked into the authoring tool, or anyone who finds Storyline's slide-and-timeline model a poor fit for long-scroll responsive content.

A Note on Rise 360 and AI-First Authoring Tools

Two categories sit slightly outside the "import your PPT" approach but are worth naming for a 2026 guide:

Rise 360 (bundled in Articulate 360) doesn't import PowerPoint the way Storyline does — it's a text-and-blocks web authoring tool rather than a slide editor. But in practice, a huge proportion of "PowerPoint to SCORM" projects are better served by transplanting the content of the deck into Rise blocks than by converting the slides directly. If your PPT is mostly bullet points and screenshots, Rise usually produces a better learner experience than a one-to-one conversion.

AI-first authoring tools (Elai.io, Synthesia, Colossyan, 7taps, HeyGen for learning) are a growing 2026 category. They take text, scripts or existing decks and generate avatar-led video lessons or microlearning cards, then export SCORM. Two caveats worth flagging. First, PowerPoint import varies. Elai.io, 7taps and Synthesia all offer PPT-import routes, while HeyGen and Colossyan lean script- or scene-first. So "use your existing deck" can mean either a direct upload or copy-pasting content across — check each vendor's current capability before committing. Second, SCORM export is almost always gated behind a Business or Enterprise tier on these platforms (7taps, for example, only exports SCORM on its Enterprise plan), so the entry-level pricing you see on their homepages rarely includes it. They're not a fit for every project — bespoke interactivity and complex branching still belong in Storyline or Captivate — but for short, talking-head-style training built from a script, they're competitive on both cost and turnaround.

I'd treat both as complementary to the three main approaches rather than replacements: Rise for text-heavy decks, AI tools for video-style microlearning, and Storyline/Captivate/iSpring when you need the authoring depth.

Approach 3: Custom Rebuild

Sometimes the right move is to treat the PowerPoint as a content brief rather than a template. A custom rebuild takes the information from your slides and creates a purpose-built SCORM course from scratch.

When this makes sense:

• The PowerPoint is dense, text-heavy, and not suited to self-paced learning
• You need rich interactivity that goes well beyond what PowerPoint-based tools offer
• The training is for a large audience and first impressions matter
• Compliance or regulatory requirements demand specific functionality
• You need WCAG 2.2 AA accessibility (genuinely baked in, not retrofitted)
• You need xAPI or cmi5 tracking granularity that SCORM can't give you
• You need multi-language localisation with shared source
• You need mobile-first or offline delivery your authoring tool can't produce
• You want a distinctive learning experience, not "slides in a wrapper"

What you get:

• Fully custom design aligned with your brand
• Purpose-built interactions for your specific content
• Optimal performance across devices
• Clean, accessible code
• Complete control over tracking and reporting

This is the approach I take when a conversion tool simply can't do justice to the content — and it's the core of my custom SCORM development service. I take your source material (PowerPoint, Word documents, SME interviews, existing training) and build it into a course designed around how your learners will actually use it.

One thing worth knowing about tool-exported packages: once Rise, Storyline, Captivate or iSpring publish a SCORM ZIP, the output isn't built to be edited. You can open it up — it's just a ZIP of HTML and JavaScript — but the authoring tool doesn't expose hooks for tweaking how it talks to the LMS, so any changes are hand-patched and fragile. I've been brought in more than once to rescue clients whose Rise or Storyline packages were blowing past the SCORM 1.2 suspend_data limit (4,096 characters, roughly 4KB). Learners would leave the course and then couldn't reliably resume where they left off, because the LMS couldn't store the full bookmark state. The fix, in each case, was patching the published package directly — compressing suspend_data or switching to SCORM 2004 — because the authoring tool doesn't expose enough control over what gets written to the SCORM data model. With a custom build, you decide what gets saved, how often, and in what shape. The tool doesn't decide for you.

Cost: Two things to separate here — industry rates and what I actually charge.

Industry rates (UK, 2026): A genuinely bespoke build from a UK agency or freelancer typically lands at £4,000–£6,000 per 20-minute module for something straightforward, and £15,000–£50,000+ for flagship, accessibility-audited or compliance-grade courses. Per finished hour of learning, the long-standing UK benchmark of £25,000–£30,000 still holds for quality custom content, rising to £40,000–£75,000+ at the top end for Level 3 work with branching simulations, video, and legal sign-off.

What I charge: I work solo and scope tightly, so my numbers usually sit below those industry figures. As a concrete recent example, I delivered a PowerPoint-to-SCORM conversion for a client last month for £2,000. That's the kind of project where the source deck is solid, the brief is clear, and the goal is "make this tracked, accessible and mobile-friendly in an LMS" rather than "rebuild this from scratch with custom interactions". For larger or fully bespoke builds I quote on scope.

Best for: Flagship courses, compliance training, onboarding programmes, or any training where quality and engagement directly impact business outcomes.

Step-by-Step: Basic PowerPoint to SCORM (iSpring Method)

Here's a detailed walkthrough of the most common conversion path:

Preparing Your PowerPoint

Before converting, clean up your source file:

1. Remove speaker notes you don't want learners to see (or convert them to on-screen text)
2. Check fonts — ensure all fonts are commonly available or embedded in the file
3. Optimise media — compress images and audio to keep file size manageable
4. Fix broken links — any hyperlinks in your PowerPoint will carry over
5. Review animations — simple animations convert well; complex ones may not
6. Add alt text to images for accessibility
7. Structure slide order — the slide sequence becomes the course flow

Configuring SCORM Settings

When publishing, you'll need to decide:

SCORM version: SCORM 1.2 or 2004. For most PowerPoint conversions, SCORM 1.2 is still the right default in 2026 — it has the broadest LMS support and Rustici's SCORM Cloud data shows it remains the most-used version. Choose SCORM 2004 4th Edition only if you need larger bookmark storage (64KB vs 4KB of suspend_data), separate completion and success reporting, or sequencing rules. For the full rationale, see my breakdown of SCORM 1.2 vs SCORM 2004.

Completion tracking: How does the LMS know the learner has finished?

• By slides viewed — completed when they've viewed all (or a percentage of) slides
• By quiz score — completed when they pass the quiz with a minimum score
• By time spent — completed after a minimum time in the course

Passing score: If you have a quiz, what score constitutes a pass? 70%? 80%?

Number of attempts: Can learners retake the quiz? How many times?

Publishing and Testing

1. Publish the SCORM package — this creates a ZIP file
2. Test in a SCORM validator — tools like SCORM Cloud (cloud.scorm.com) let you test packages without uploading to your production LMS
3. Upload to your LMS — import the ZIP file through your LMS's course upload feature
4. Test as a learner — go through the entire course, checking:
   • All slides display correctly
   • Animations and transitions work
   • Audio/video plays properly
   • Quiz questions function and score correctly
   • Completion registers in the LMS
   • Bookmarking works — exit partway through, return, and verify it resumes (SCORM calls this "resume data" or suspend_data under the hood)
5. Check reporting — verify the LMS reports show the data you expect

Validate your conversion with our free SCORM testing checklist before deploying to your LMS.

If any of this raises issues, the next section covers the fixes I reach for most often.

Common Conversion Issues

Fonts Not Rendering

Problem: Custom fonts in your PowerPoint appear as default fonts in the converted output.

Solution: Embed fonts in the PowerPoint file (File → Options → Save → Embed fonts on Windows; Preferences → Save → Embed fonts on Mac, supported since 2018). Alternatively, stick to web-safe fonts, or rely on iSpring, which typically handles font embedding well.

Animations Playing Differently

Problem: Complex PowerPoint animations look different or don't work in the SCORM output.

Solution: Stick to simple entrance/exit animations (fade, appear, fly in). Motion paths, morphs, and 3D transitions often don't convert well. Test the converted output and simplify animations that don't translate.

Large File Sizes

Problem: The SCORM package is too large for your LMS to upload. Limits vary enormously — typically 100MB to 2GB depending on plan and platform, with free or starter tiers often capped at 100–250MB.

Solution:

• Compress images before inserting (aim for 150 DPI for screen display)
• Host videos externally (YouTube, Vimeo) and embed rather than including them in the package. Three caveats though: strict LMS content-security policies can block external iframes; offline or air-gapped deployments will break; and SCORM can't track watch-through on a video playing in an external player
• Split long courses into multiple SCORM packages
• Use audio compression (128kbps MP3 is usually sufficient)

Quiz Scores Not Reporting

Problem: Learners complete the quiz but the LMS doesn't show a score.

Solution: Verify the SCORM tracking is set to "quiz score" (not "slides viewed"). Check that the quiz is built using the tool's quiz feature, not just shapes on slides. If scores still aren't reporting, the issue is usually in how the quiz interactions are configured — get in touch if you need a second pair of eyes.

Mobile Display Issues

Problem: The converted course doesn't look right on phones or tablets.

Solution: Use the tool's responsive/mobile settings. iSpring's player is responsive by default. For Storyline, use the responsive player or design at multiple device sizes. Avoid very wide layouts or tiny text that requires zooming.

LMS Compatibility Notes

Even a clean SCORM package can hit platform-specific quirks on upload. If you know which platform you're uploading to, a few platform-specific pointers:

• Moodle — file upload limit is controlled by PHP settings (upload_max_filesize / post_max_size); self-hosted Moodle typically allows up to 1GB. Moodle's SCORM activity has a separate "grade method" setting (highest, average, first, last attempt) that catches people out — make sure it matches what your course actually reports.
• Cornerstone OnDemand — upload limit is 2GB per package. Watch for iframe and mixed-content issues: Cornerstone serves content from its own CDN, so any hard-coded external URLs in your package need HTTPS.
• SAP SuccessFactors Learning — historically prefers SCORM 1.2 over 2004, with an Akamai-imposed ceiling around 2GB. For larger packages the workaround is to upload only the manifest via the UI, then SFTP the content assets to iContent separately. Completion sometimes needs a manual completion trigger from the course.
• Docebo — 1GB per package, and it recommends keeping files inside the ZIP under 15,000.
• TalentLMS — 600MB on paid plans, 100MB on the free tier.
• LearnUpon — generous 2.5GB per package.
• 360Learning — doesn't publish a specific limit; uses Rustici under the hood, so behaviour is generally predictable.
• SCORM Cloud (Rustici) — effectively no hard file-size limit on paid plans; the safest place to validate a package before you ever touch your production LMS.

Whichever LMS you're on, always test in SCORM Cloud first. If a package works there but not in your production LMS, the issue is almost always platform-specific configuration rather than your SCORM package.

Tips for Better Conversions

1. Design for screen, not print. Slides with walls of text make poor e-learning. Break content into shorter slides with key points, visuals, and white space.
2. Add a quiz. Even a simple knowledge check transforms passive content into active learning and gives you meaningful completion data.
3. Treat your title slide like a book cover. It's the course landing card in the LMS — it's what a learner sees before they click "start," and first impressions shape completion rates more than people realise.
4. Use consistent layouts. Consistency helps learners focus on content rather than figuring out where things are on each slide.
5. Keep it under 30 minutes. If your PowerPoint would take longer, consider splitting into multiple modules. Shorter courses have better completion rates.
6. Test on a real learner device. SCORM Cloud validates the package; a corporate laptop with locked-down browsers, a phone on 4G, or a VPN'd home connection will expose a different set of issues. Do at least one end-to-end test in conditions your actual learners will use.

When to Stop Converting and Start Building

If you're spending more time fixing conversion quirks than a rebuild would take, or fighting the tool to get the design you actually want, that's the signal. Sometimes the most efficient path isn't the most obvious one — and a custom build becomes the faster route.

Frequently Asked Questions

Can PowerPoint be converted to SCORM?

Yes. PowerPoint itself can't produce SCORM — but a range of tools can take a .pptx file and output a SCORM-compliant package. The main options are a PowerPoint plugin (iSpring Converter Pro or iSpring Suite), an authoring tool that imports PowerPoint (Articulate Storyline, Adobe Captivate), a free or online converter (ActivePresenter, ScormHero), or a custom rebuild where a developer uses the deck as source content.

Is PowerPoint SCORM-compliant on its own?

No. PowerPoint can't track completion, record quiz scores, save a learner's progress, or report data to an LMS. SCORM is the wrapper that adds those capabilities. A .pptx file on its own can't be uploaded to an LMS as a trackable course.

What is the best tool to convert PowerPoint to SCORM?

For direct conversion with minimum fuss, iSpring is the strongest option — it installs as a PowerPoint plugin and preserves animations, narration, and formatting better than anything else. For adding interactivity on top of the PPT content, Articulate Storyline 360 has the best import workflow and deepest interaction library. For teams that want AI-assisted drafting, the new Adobe Captivate is worth a look.

How do I convert PowerPoint to SCORM for free?

Several genuinely free options exist in 2026. SimpliTrain and Scormate are browser-based converters with no sign-up, no watermarks and no hidden tiers — SimpliTrain outputs SCORM 1.2 and 2004 (files up to 90MB), Scormate outputs SCORM 1.2 (files up to 100MB). ScormHero has a free tier capped at 5 conversions per day. Teachfloor is free but caps files at 25MB and delivers the SCORM package by email. ActivePresenter is a free desktop authoring tool, but its free licence is non-commercial only — any paid project needs a licence. For anything beyond a quick experiment or proof of concept, a paid tool like iSpring Converter Pro (around £296/year) is usually worth the money.

Should I use SCORM 1.2 or SCORM 2004 for a PowerPoint conversion?

For most PowerPoint conversions, SCORM 1.2 is still the right default in 2026. It has the broadest LMS support and remains the most-used SCORM version. Choose SCORM 2004 4th Edition only if you need larger bookmark storage (64KB vs 4KB of suspend_data), separate completion and success reporting, or sequencing rules.

Can I convert PowerPoint to SCORM without any software?

Only via browser-based online converters, which have trade-offs (watermarks, limited tracking, data-privacy concerns, output restrictions). For anything production-grade, you'll need either an installed tool (iSpring, Storyline, Captivate, ActivePresenter) or a developer to build a custom package.

I work with organisations at every point on this spectrum — from teams that just need a sanity check on their own iSpring setup, to clients handing me a stack of legacy decks to rebuild as flagship courses.

If you'd like me to handle the conversion for you, my PowerPoint to SCORM conversion service has the pricing, turnaround and process laid out. If you'd rather start with a conversation, get in touch and I'll give you an honest assessment of what approach makes sense for your content, budget and timeline — the initial call is free.